There ain't no Coupe deVille hiding at the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box. This is a company that is All American and fiercely proud of that fact. If I had been responsible for coding that display I would never tell anyone. There is no dark magic involved. Well this is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons for sure. home system and listening for that end result. Unfortunately not, I'm going the second hand route as I've done with most of my setup. However, the extra PSU does add to the cost considerably! With a better matched preamp presence may be acceptable. I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. MSB are an American brand headed up by the brothers Jonathan and Daniel Gullman and located in Silicon Valley, California where they design and build a range of amplifiers, transports, and DACs. which make some people prefer this one to MSB Select II Point 85 Chord Dave and Mscaler (or Blue II transport) This one give transparent and 3D soundstage with excellent details. I do however like the i2S connection better than any other It is my name after all! Aurender N10 is still not a USB only dedicated streamer so you will not hear what USB audio is fully capable off through Ms/Dave. I agree price is necessarily indicative of quality or performance. @smodtactical I would not take price as any arbitrator of quality, especially nowadays. We used PCM (16/44,1 to 24/192) and DSD 64 and 128 for the comparioson. Anyone make that comparison? Point 75 EmmLab Dac2 I paid 9K$ for this on 2010. This hobby is "highly subjective", influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions; therefore you can A/B a million different components and come to a completely different conclusion on how it sounds compared to another listener. Can it output a Low or High Voltage on a single pin in a bitstream? I believe it comes down to Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator. the Select II pushes the analog to be its best. MSB DACs also use a processing chip to handle oversampling and digital filtering (not sure if this chip is an FPGA or other type processing chip, but it is a high speed digital processing chip). Couldn't agree more. Main Menu You're very polite about how you describe your preferences, cmarin. Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet >Antipodes K30> Shunyata Omega USB> Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120, Amp& Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 >Aerial 10T, Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra,ShunyataDenali v1 andTyphon power conditioners,Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma power cords, QSA Lanedri GammaRevelationinterconnect,Shunyata SigmaEthernet,MIT Matrix HD60speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels. The DAC has two modes; multi-bit PCM and single-bit discrete DSD mode. But even with great preamps, a great DAC in a low noise environment, will produce a more transparent sound going direct to the amps than through the preamp. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? After that you are GOLDEN. The in-house discrete design is then constructed into its own shielded CNC pocket for optimal isolation. The Merriam-Webster online dictionary tells me that the definition of high-fidelity (HiFi) is the reproduction of an effect (such as sound or an image) that is very faithful to the original and it would seem to be reasonable to assume that this is the goal of audiophiles around the world. And yes, you can improve it more by adding nice power source and cable. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/a-dac-that-crushes-price-vs-performance-ratio. DAVE stands for 'Digital to Analogue Veritas in Extremis', a moniker that best reflects the product's . Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends.. But the differences between great DACs is small. I did have the BADA Ref in my system for a short audition, and the Trinity And CH Precision C1 for a longer stay during a previous iteration of my system. I also looked at the MSB Discrete DAC but everything thing was an extra cost option (USB, AES/EBU, power supply, etc.,) and expensive. Since the Topping D70s SINAD is ~120 dB and it costs ~$650, then given that "money is power" (as opposed to amplitude), I would expect the Chord DAVE SINAD to be at least 120 + 10*log($14,000 / $650) = 133.3 dB. As a matter of fact, I'd appreciate getting your impressions. Were honored to be recognized by the industry for bringing you the most lifelike sound we can. It has the option for two PSUs and once you hear with both it becomes a necessity to have both. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. Rori is definitely welcome. Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. I believe it comes down to Almost all gear I hear is pretty good and some are great but the most expensive ones are not universally the best to my ears. Focusing on our network renderer and USB input, your audio tech will be on the cutting edge. Nothing was amiss. dac at a reasonable price. II cannot do anything but award this DAC our highest award, but that award goes with the caveats that it should be used directly into an amplifier and that Id like to have had the options for analogue inputs. I was upgrading it in this order and still could not believe every time it sounded better. When we set out to make the MSB remote, the design was built from the ground up. I mean is it audibly noticeable? It may not display this or other websites correctly. I suppose that the vast majority of people who listen for pleasure at home are looking for a balance between the two, and whilst I still maintain we are most likely to hear the biggest effect in a system by changing transducers, every element in the chain of sound will affect the final sound and, in a digital system, I think the DAC you choose can have a huge effect on the final sound. Im outputting directly to the LAB12 (and later a Krell KST100) power amp and so a digital volume algorithm is used where the digital volume control is left at a relatively high output so as not to encounter loss at lower volume levels. Actually the ChordHugo M Scaler and the Blu Mk. Sign up for a new account in our community. Firstly, that was a very impressive list of high end components you have listened to. What else should one expect? Like the rest of the main body of the DAC and the PSUs, the remote is hewn from a block of aluminium. At some point you have to be content in this hobby. This is a review, detailed measurements and listening tests of CHORD DAVE combination DAC and headphone amplifier. After a year of listening to various components I'm content. And I've learned to be careful and not generalize how a component will sound based on show conditions or other systems. In that time, weve pushed the industry forward with each product weve built, redefining whats possible. It is bested easily by DACs at $150. @shkong78 Thanks for sharing your listening impressions of the Lampizator Pacific vs the MSB DACs as well as what you miss about the Pacific vs your Chord combo. This effect was evident on track after track but didnt feel like it was overly exaggerated. Fixed. The output modules are where the converted digital signals are output to analogue signals that our amplifiers can make use of and MSB make two flavours of the output module. Impedance 100 Low Gain setting. Even at very low listening levels, it was clear that the MSB was delivering a clean analogue output to the ampand Im aware that sounds a bit vague. state his/her experience and preferences. But dont take our word for it. Also; recently MSB introduced a new interface that optimizes USB and adds fibre to reduce noise, the MSB Pro USB. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Let us do the work of refurbishing and finding your current electronics a new hometheyll continue to be enjoyed for years to come. Theyre not limited by audio formats, sample rates, or even speed. Up to 32 bit 768kHz If you go reference you will never look back. There's 340 pages packed with HiFi Reviews, Industry Interviews and much more. I recently bought a DAC with a digital volume control precisely to bypass the preamp, but when I compared the two approaches there was very little between them. Anyway, I switched out the valve power amplifier and put in its place the Krell KST100 (all fully fettled and brought up to a better than new spec by Krell in the States) with my intention being to see what effect was the DAC and what was down to the amp basically isolating the effect to a component. Others might disagree but these are my findings. Its a clever thing meaning that their products are repairable and upgradeable for example, you can have a card that is set up for single-ended outputs or balanced XLR outputs (for review we have the balanced version). How does the PS Audio DirectStream DAC compare to the Chord DAC? Elegant design. Click here to download your copy, At 11000 plus taxes as tested the Lampizator Big 7 is certainly no budget DAC, but does it deliver on sonic ability? You could try some of the newer dacs that has gotten good reviews. Thanks for the suggestions Wisnon. for instance, the Select II is modular (customers can easily change modules in seconds)so it has the ability to quickly modify its inputs to allow for optimization of various interfaces. I have a PS Audio DSD ATM and it is also on the warm side which is good, but I'm thinking I need something more neutral due to my speakers being fairly warm and full bodied in their own right to take my system to the next level. personal preference." Gbel High End [Divin Noblesse], [Divin Marquis], ([Epoque Aeon Fine]). Please specify coaxial S/PDiF or optical S/PDiF. The sonic signature is detailed and yet easy to listen to, with the Discrete bringing a sense of the recordings scale (big or small) to the listening experience. Thanks for the interesting reply, cmarin. CHORD Dave could be the most expensive deeply design DAC in the world and if you find it not your taste there is the best off the shelf DACs like akm4499 in Topping D90 for 699$ that could be even better than Dave. What makes you want to upgrade from DAVE? With the MSB there has been a great deal of attention paid to ensuring the signal stays as pure as possible and is not affected by other parts of the DAC or outside sources; modular construction, dual power supplies, isolation of USB etc. JavaScript is disabled. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. Compared to some other similarly priced DACs ($10 - $15k MSRP) I prefer the Discrete with 2 Discrete PS. I have heard a lot of top DACs at shows or other systems but not in my own. The Chord Qutest DAC has the same DAC architecture and filters as the Chord Hugo 2. I can leave my hand on it as long as I want to. The SQ from DAC headphone output is lower than the best headphone amplifier but that kind of amplifier costs close to DAVE itself. CH Precision mono dac with clock and 3 power supplies (7 boxes)----its more spendy---$150k, Merging Technologies NADAC w/power supply and clock---much better now with the clock and power supply upgrades than my previous experience.----around $60k. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. The only other items in the chain were the Stack streamer and a pretty well-sorted network setup. prefer to keep our test results among ourselves. 1 - MSB Discrete 2 - dCS Bartok 3 - Mola Mola Tambaqui 4 - Chord DAVE (add the M Scaler later) 5 - Keep my Ayre QX-5 Twenty, do nothing Thanks! I agree with your statement. The end result is a digital experience defying expectations. Sonically, it is akin to the old straight wire with gain only in the digital realm. Chord Dave Replacement. The Discrete DAC Features - MSB Technology The Discrete DAC Refined sound. I would say go for one of the other MSB ModelsThe Reference is half of the Select dac and the premier and discrete dacs are stunning performers for their price level Just in case it's not obvious, toetapaudio is a Mola Mola Dealer. Tailored for both the transport and the DACs daily use, our remote brings you closer to the music you love. MSB thrives off the innovation required to meet consumer demands. I've also learned that a DAC's performance will depend heavily on the music player. https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-rothschild-70aab85/, Headphones and Personal Audio with Pitch Perfect Service. 5 other people who only have 2 things in common with our system. Lots of time it So take it for what it is. The main reason we took on Rockna was because their The DAVE DAC does not perform anywhere near where it should. and our ears are completely different. I would have loved if you heard them in the same system for a direct comparison. One of the things I jotted down in my notes during this time was the sense of scale the Discrete brought to the music I was listening to big music sounded BIG and more intimate recordings had their own scale too. To build a simple and good system). You already have a very top tier DAC. Blimey my RME ADI 2 DAC looks to have better performance at a fraction of the cost, /===============================================================/, DACs, Streamers, Servers, Players, Audio Interface, Combination Audio DAC and Headphone Amplifiers. Elegant yet commanding, our finishes are available in a matte silver or matte black anodize. Fair enough if you know some of the posters here and their listening preferences. I'm not an absolutist, and frankly, I could be happy with any of the DACs I mentioned. Sonically it is very much as its name suggests and converts files faithfully and without loss or (importantly) embellishment. Check out our support page and technical specifications > Click Here, 10100007 - Discrete DAC with Supply- Gallery - 1200px, 10100007 - Discrete DAC with Supplies - Gallery - 1200px, 10100006 - Discrete DAC - Gallery - 1200px, 10100003 - Discrete DAC Badge - Gallery - 1200px, 10100005 - Discrete DAC MSB Logo - Gallery - 1200px, 10100004 - Discrete DAC Jack Panel - Gallery - 1200px, 10100008 - Discrete DAC Basemetal - Gallery - 1200px, 10100009 - Discrete Supply Options - Gallery - 1200px, 10100010 - Discrete Supply Cover - Gallery - 1200px. The other thing I've learned about the Chord Dave is it can sound very different depending on the interconnect and/or power cord used. But the majority of the time all 6 of Ill not get into the whole detail of this here but the MSB website does have an excellent (and interesting) explanation of jitter and why having a very low jitter clock is favourable to having a very accurate clock theres a link at the bottom of this review. This gives us lots of headroom for future sample rates and audio formats.. let me know when it's on, I'll make my way down if I can. Astrostar here, said it completely blew away any dac he had before, and mind you, he has the entry level AC model. The MSB simply offered more of everything and to my ears proved again that a true multi bit converter/ladder DAC is superior to delta/sigma or FPGA DACs. I say take what everyone post when a grain of salt, because an individual's preference may be different than yours. Hmm.. Paired with performance increases, our modular design ethos increases flexibility for future updates and product support, guaranteeing a long-term product investment. I don't like Dave with or without upsampler but I do like Auralic G2 with their upsampler and clock. I hope to also have an opportunity to listen to a T+A DAC8 (for DSD512) and a Chord Dave (DSD256) in my system soon (with HQPlayer). This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. This leaner and cleaner edge has the effect of adding a level of perceived detail to the listening experience. I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive, I have heard the Dave and EMM Labs DAC2x up against aMakua that I subsequently purchased. This latter track is a good track for me to play when listening to new kit as it is basically a drum machine and an acid box and this latter did sound just like a 303 there in the room. You might want to consider adding one of Chord's Upscalers, either Hugo M scaler , or the Blu Mk. I have Chord Dave and Blu2 too. Up to 32 bit 768kHz You go off people's opinions and hope it'll match your equipment and system when you put the hard earned down. There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. EAR FILLERS HiFi Pig Playlists on Qobuz, Transatlantic Dispatches: A New World Disorder, Astell&Kern Launch Three New Products At High End Munich 2022. The BADA Ref is a great DAC and I understand the new version takes it to even another level. First I want to say that I fully agree that the hobby is I listen mostly to classical music, particularly with symphonic work, I prefer DAVE to MSB. For the most part, I used this input and for a quick comparison one of the optical inputs. Thanks. Up to 1km lossless transmission. It is a pretty DAC but usability is left behind. This kind of sound really appeals to me and was really excellent to experience on lots of tunes, but was especially evident on tracks from Rumours with every part of the mix being identifiable as unique. Since this forum is mainly USA based and we are in the UK, I have very little to gain business wise here. I've yet to see a system with direct connections eliminating the preamp which wasn't improved by a adding a good preamp back into the mix! That statement makes sense in an analog paradigm. While were committed to long lasting products that hold their value, we realize audio systems are always evolving. We await Phase 2 where all DACs are assessed using upsampled data via your Lumin U1 to establish ranking and the preferred format through each. I had the DAVE for 3years, it is an amazing DAC. Have you thought about hooking up a Blu2 to Dave? Would love to hear your opinions of which was better and why? Like the rest of the DACs in the MSB range, the Select DAC is modular in its architecture with each of the modules being produced in house, as outlined above. Looks like your budget goes up to ~$20k? As it stands, the Discrete offers a very good solution should you be a music lover that plays only digital files and you can go straight into a power amp. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296, Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio, Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream. Watts is avidly not reading this in anticipation of the video version he won't watch. Strangely, this new review is not displayed when you select the review folder on the homepage. Btw, my MSB friend and I used the internal analog preamp for MSB and built-in digital preamp for DAVE. You must log in or register to reply here. Ps Audio Directstream Dac Vs Auralic Vega Founded in 2004, Games for Change is a 501(c)3 nonprofit that empowers game creators and social innovators to drive real-world impact through games and immersive media Here is the list : Trinity Designs [Trinity DAC] TotalDAC [d1-Six] Aqua Acoustic Quality [Formula xHD] MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option . With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. Of course this DAC is super pricey and out of the reach of many (including me). and build quality is also excellent. A fully balanced, ultra-high precision, discrete ladder DAC architecture ensures each note tells a story. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? Hifi Pig is part of the Big Pig Media LLP group of companies. You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. Stay updated on Bloom Audio at their. So true jr, the discrete R2R Multibit dacs like the Terminator the Holo, MSB, Total ect ect have a life and a boogie factor to the music that DS dacs lack, and yes they do show up bad recordings. Each clock is made up of two independent clocks but only one is used at any given time so as not to add unwanted noise to the circuit. Perhaps thats a bit of an odd example for me to use as its a bit World Music but you are also made aware of the rightness of timing on percussive techno tracks. It could sound analytical or hot coupled with bright combination of speaker and amplifier. The clock can be seen as being the heart of the DAC and once again the clocks are made in-house. Im participating to both learn and make suggestions where I have experience that may help. Daedalus Audio Apollo 11's. REL S3/SHO. Roon Endpoint Hope to try different formats on both DACs to see what works best in my system. Founded in 2010 Whats Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. comes down to knowing what you are actually trying to achieve in a high end Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This unit came with two power supplies and Ill be playing with the DAC with one and with two to compare and contrast. Like the Lab12. And the Jeff Rowland Aeris DAC with new PSU. You are using an out of date browser. What didn't you like about the Dave? Now to include the HMS. There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? Digital: Jay's Audio CDT2 MK2 CD transport, Modified MHDT Labs Balanced Pagoda DAC. Powered by Invision Community. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/, Check the true bit-depth of your files and audio engine, Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences, Know your limits (Sound Exposure Safety Chart), Topping DX7 Pro+ vs Chord DAVE measurements (Cosmos ADC) - DAVE is better in some areas (surprise! See what the reviews are saying. It's pretty funny how everyone gives their personal pet recommendation with the utmost confidence that the buyer will like it. I've had some excellent preamps in my system (Dartzeel, Absolare, Robert Koda, Kondo). As a contented Qutest user, I would have hoped for "improved", performance from the Dave. Once you add the second discrete PS, and a module or two for it to work, the price goes over $23-24K. Im getting a bit away from the review proper, but Im sure you can see why I have added that little diversion. So I personally prefer to listen to different DACs just like I prefer to listen to analog as well as digital. The formats that is used in comparison test is all 16bit / 44.1KHz, not DSD The Result : 1st : Select DAC II Full Option - 100% 2nd : Trinity DAC - 90% There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. This is a very odd one to describe but came to the fore on tracks like Pan Eros from World Of Drums and Percussion. However, to get this level of separation and detail within the soundscape the DAC is clearly having a very important role to play. T&A Dac8 (for DSD512) or Lampi Atlantic for any native rate DSD playback. By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. I'm really anxious to hear more opinions about this DAC and noticed that DAVE hasn't got a thread of its own (only together with Mojo). Never use!! The next module is the display which is a cool and easy-to-read LED that is slaved to the audio clock. The DAC comes equipped with a single power supply, but can be augmented with a second discrete power supply to enable optimized power isolation between all major components. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. September 6, 2016 in DAC - Digital to Analog Conversion. The world's largest high-end audio community. Theres just a sense that with the MSB in the line that everything is timed correctly and rock solid. Anyway, the little bit of extra detail on the strings, the attack, and decay are all there to be heard and its a marvelous thing to listen to. Links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Hifi Pig and Big Pig Media with appropriate and specific direction (link) to the original content. This is disabled if you are outputting to a preamplifier. The Discrete DAC, The Premier DAC, The Reference DAC, The Select DAC II, Theater Master. auditioned the Rockna Wavedream Edition DAC. As you mentioned imaging better, incredible PRaT with MSB. It would have been a different outcome though with the Cyrus pre-amp I previously owned, which cast a veil over everything. This ranking is just my subjective thinking. Unless they have the exact same components as the end user, it's impossible to tell that customer how component X will sound in their system. Talking of cool lets talk about this remote. If so I'd recommend the Aqua Formula xHD and the TotalDAC d1-Seven. But MSB Select 2 is regarded by many as the best thats why for something 1/10 of the price to compete in anyones eyes is quite an accomplishment. At $20,000 I recommend the MSB Premier DAC with two power supplies (KeithRs system). The best upgrade for Dave easy. Personally, I think that both these standpoints have their merits and its going to be a case of you paying your money and you taking your choice. Regular readers will appreciate all that is taken from the MSB website and I make no apologies for not really understanding the electronics. I like Aqua Formula xHD and Totaldac Six. It seems to take in zeros and ones and then somehow make sense of these and just convert them into faithful reproductions of the recording though me not being at the recording of any of the records I listened to, thats my assumption coming into play. So I saw the DAC lighting up and it looked fully functional, right down displaying the bit rate etc of the file playing, but no music. I suppose what Im saying (badly) is that the Discrete was true to the file it was being fed and I did enjoy hearing it allowed me to pull small details out of the mix Jazz at the Pawn Shop (DSD128) felt more lifelike and in the room than I am used to and raw tracks such as Phutures Acid Trax did sound rougher and really basically recorded. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. MQA decoding The Chord DAVE was also on my list, but I decided to pass (my Chord retailer was very 'pushy' and not helpful). Once populated, the circuit boards are made into modules and then placed inside the casework. What effect does reconstruction filter have? comparing top dacs directly is a bit challenging, even if you have them both together. Founded in 2010 Whats Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. I may need to reset expectations a bit lower: This is an update to some old DAVE vibration control posts. The biggest question about this device is, Yeah listened to the same HEk V2 and Chord Dave with. Click to expand. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. The jump from Six to Seven is rather large. the Extreme has some special optimization for USB. However, Id argue that there is sort of two trains of thought on this subject; one where theres absolute fidelity to the source material at all costs, and another that sounds great though to the listener but perhaps not absolutely true to the original source and I dont think its unfair to say that both these positions have their place in the world of playing tunes at home.
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